Norbert W. Paul was born in Solingen, North Rhine-Westphalia, in 1964. He studied history, philosophy, German philology and medicine in Münster and Düsseldorf. This was followed by a doctorate at the Westphalian Wilhelms University of Münster and a habilitation at the Heinrich Heine University in Düsseldorf. Time and again, his research took him to various positions abroad, for example as part of a visiting professorship at Stanford University in the USA . Since the summer semester of 2004, Paul has been director of the Institute for the History, Theory and Ethics of Medicine at the Mainz University Medical Center.
In December 2004, the medical ethicist was appointed to the Bioethics Commission of the State of Rhineland-Palatinate. This advises the state government on the ethical, social and legal classification of new technologies. Since last year he has been chairman of the ethics advisory board for corona vaccinations in Rhineland-Palatinate.
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SWR Aktuell: How intensively is the Ethics Advisory Board now heard on questions of the sequence of vaccinations?
Paul: Whenever a new question arises, we are involved. That was the case, for example, when the demand arose to pull up the riot police in the order. And that is also the case with the individual decisions. We made a conscious decision in Rhineland-Palatinate to allow this. A purely schematic prioritization simply disregards too many individual fates. Hundreds of individual applications have been received by the state and discussed by the ethics committee.
SWR Aktuell: As planned, the very old people were given vaccinations, but now many 30 to 40-year-olds are seriously ill in the intensive care units. Is the prioritization of the pandemic lagging behind?
Paul: You don’t believe how many sleepless nights these questions cost me: Is everything still ethically well founded? Is the prioritization strategy still correct? For a while it was certainly right, the clinics emptied because of the vaccination of the over 80 year olds. But now the pandemic is being pushed into younger groups. But in the end it is always the question: When can we all vaccinate and also whether the willingness to vaccinate will then be high enough. Indeed, that worries me too.
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Always nice one after the other – at least that’s how it is intended (symbol picture)
dpa Bildfunk
picture alliance/dpa | Felix Kästle
SWR Aktuell: Starting next week, the vaccine deliveries to the general practitioners will be mixed. 50 percent Biontech, 50 percent Astrazeneca. General practitioners fear that Astrazeneca will be denied by many, but the prioritization does not allow vaccinating other people who have not yet had their turn but would like to take the Astrazeneca vaccine.
Paul: At the moment, I still consider this an artificial problem because I have had different experiences with us at the Mainz University Hospital. We vaccinated over 2,000 employees with Astrazeneca. In a crisis meeting this week I was asked whether a second vaccination with this vaccine might not be possible. Quite a few employees want that, because a change between different vaccines appears to them to be the worse option after a risk assessment. So: For many people in the medical field, the discussion about the Astra vaccine is not so much of a topic, although we in Mainz also had to treat someone with a vaccine-related sinus thrombosis in the clinic.
The prioritization list is already valid for a period of time that we didn’t want to imagine for so long.
Mainz medical ethicist Norbert Paul
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SWR Aktuell: Wherever you ask around, there are stories that make you doubt whether the written prioritization works in practice. Vaccinated beauticians or people who have a certificate for the daily care of their parents, but who live 300 kilometers away.
Paul: Well thought – and that is the prioritization – is just not done well. The body-hugging service providers were prioritized because there are some among them who take care of the hair or feet of the elderly in the nursing homes. But I’m also a bit old-fashioned here: It also has something to do with decency and solidarity. And of course the prioritization list is already valid for a period that we didn’t want to imagine for so long. We now have a phase of softening prioritization, where everyone thinks: “Now I can too.” The guilty conscience is no longer included when pushing ahead. But it’s like tax evasion: not paying taxes correctly and then complaining about the lack of bridges over the Rhine, that doesn’t work. And I do not want to have more authoritarian states to enforce the prioritization.
Relaxation after lockdown in Rhineland-Palatinate a “crazy idea”
SWR Aktuell: When will the time come when we can throw prioritization overboard because we’re swimming in vaccine?
Paul: I don’t venture a prognosis. I do not consider the vaccination offer announced by the federal government for everyone until summer to be absurd if summer refers to the period around the federal election in September rather than the beginning of the summer vacation. For most of us, it will then be too late for a regular vacation. But we also don’t know what to expect with the mutants. We are currently seeing many younger seriously ill patients – all with mutants. It was just a crazy idea that we started to loosen up when the third wave picked up speed.
The interview was conducted by SWR Aktuell editor Andrea Lohmann.
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