“Lilioma”: Slow Motion, Neo-Black Notes, and the Importance of Addressing Violence Against Women

Henrietta Verhoustinska: Lauri, when talking about Reinis Jaun’s album “Vārdi”, you mentioned that you would like the music to play slower… I will reveal to the audience who have not yet seen “Lilioma” that during the entire performance the actors move in slow motion, a bit robotically, a bit mechanically.

Lauris Dzelzītis: Oh, that’s probably why! (Everyone laughs.)

Darta Danevich: I thought about that too.

[Par kustību] – that was my biggest puzzle, which I admit, I didn’t fully solve while watching this show. So I’m very curious, what did the director say to you? How did she justify it?

Darta Danevich: There was no set-in-stone rationale. It started at the very first rehearsal, when the director let us know that she wanted to introduce somewhere neo-black notes, and showed us several video clips from different movies, series, so that we could catch the mood. We didn’t seem to understand at first. At least Ieva Seglina and I talked about the fact that at first we didn’t understand that she would want us to be slow; we simply tried to capture that tension in silence, pauses of silence, or prolonged thinking. We got to that slowness little by little. She let us know it so calmly, without emphasis. I don’t know how much we’re allowed to reveal, but I personally think that what we’re doing on stage now – what’s visible to the audience – is fast. What we did in rehearsals was, I think, four times slower.

Lauris Dzelzītis: Yes, it was a bold concept – to solve everything that way. It must be said that it could be used as a technique in some scenes or episodes, but on average, to put the whole card on it and on the lights was too bold. But in my understanding, this show is still being born.

In mine too. I watched the premiere and realized that all this still needs to be bounded, filled with content to a greater extent than it is now.

Lauris Dzelzītis: There is actually quite a bit of content there, if we take the play.

Darta Danevich: It is such a fairy tale, a dramatic fairy tale. Therefore, these other techniques may even in some way help flesh out this dramaturgical tale. I agree with Lauri that in this case the process of making the show was so specific. We don’t have the usual scenography, our scenography is lights.

Wonderful lights by Oskars Pauliņš!

Darta Danevich: Oscar really is a magician.

It’s no secret that enlightenment is always the very last element, it happens in the last days, but for us it’s all we have.

Usually in rehearsals you get furniture, props… Here we got it at the very last moment, which is just a normal work process in all theaters. I think we should have done some more rehearsal shows with the experimental audience, just to get a feel for each other.

Lauris Dzelzītis: Yes, because solving it in such a classic version, there should be no great art. But I like that there are bold attempts, solutions.

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Lauri, it’s not the first time you’ve collaborated with the Hungarian director Ildiko Gāšpāras, you play in her show “Degundži”. This was Darta’s first collaboration with Ildiko. How would you describe what makes her different from Latvian directors?

Lauris Dzelzītis: In “Rhinoceros” it was a bit different. I do not know. I wouldn’t really distinguish what makes her very different.

Darta Danevich: You know, I got the feeling that she was an uncompromising artist. She wants to create art on stage, she doesn’t think about how many people it will be relevant to – her chosen form.

Lauris Dzelzītis: It’s not like Latvian directors haven’t had it.

Darta Danevich: I think the locals sometimes think about it, they know the viewer. It is absolutely unimportant to Ildiko. In that sense, she is really a walker of her own path, who does not analyze and function, and does not try to calculate anything. It is very important for her to follow her own path as an artist. There are some things where she is not ready to compromise at all – in a good way – because it is important for her to keep her flag flying, so to speak. And it was interesting.

Lauris Dzelzītis: Interesting – yes, but was it necessary? Does this feature…

Let the audience decide for themselves.

Darta Danevich: Henrietta asked how she was different.

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Speaking of the premiere you just passed – are there any special rules you follow before premieres? Don’t overeat, exercise, sleep, or something like that?

Lauris Dzelzītis: I would like to have a perfect life before that, but it is a bit the opposite.

As opposed to what it should be? (Laughs)

Lauris Dzelzītis: Yes. But think about it, we had a bright week. The lights are very bright. You walk, here and there you put lights, you are in the middle of nowhere. From dozens to dozens you spend in such an environment, walking very slowly, and me with my cowboy boots… where every night you want some Thai woman to sleep while walking…

Massage the feet.

Lauris Dzelzītis: Yes. It’s on the psyche… It’s impossible to go to sleep.

Darta Danevich: I’ll rephrase the question if I may. Not only before the premiere, but

before every show I personally don’t eat for at least a couple of hours before, because then it’s easier for me to play. I discovered this a long time ago. And I usually try to tidy up the house.

Lauris Dzelzītis: Can you do that?

Darta Danevich: Yes.

Lauris Dzelzītis: It’s completely automatic for me: as the last week comes [pirms pirmizrādes], I’m a complete mess everywhere. After the premiere – yes, okay.

Darta Danevich: No, I have to have a tidy house and then I can go to work.

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I noticed something in this “Liliom” that I hadn’t noticed in the play before – it’s the relationship line between your characters, Liliom and Julia, namely the violence that is in that relationship. [Izrādēs] so far it doesn’t seem that important, but in this production this line is very important and brought to the fore. What do you, Lauri, say about your hero? An actor is always his character’s advocate.

Darta Danevich: Oh yes!

Lauris Dzelzītis: Yes!

Why is he violent towards a woman?

Lauris Dzelzītis: Remember, there was one tried…

Darta Danevich: Not just one. If anyone is an advocate for their role, here it is. (Points to Lauri Dzelzīti)

Lauris Dzelzītis: You know how it is? The director brought this topic to the fore because it is very personal to her. In Hungary, women’s rights and development in general are a little bit, a few steps lower than in Latvia. She [režisore] has been through a lot, it’s very personal for her. She is generally quite belligerent. In the lyrics, she added it and brought it more to the fore. It needs attention. I, as a performer of the role, was not terribly excited, I take everything somewhat personally, but drama is drama. In Latvia, it is now very, very relevant.

Exactly.

Lauris Dzelzītis: This is given increased attention at this time.

The theater is already here and now. If it is relevant now and if it is also talked about from the stage, it is not bad.

There is a deliberate emphasis on it.

This could no doubt be sensed. I really appreciate it. I think one of the most powerful scenes in the show is when Julia stops Liliom’s hand when he tries to hurt their daughter. At that moment, the feathers on my arms completely stood up, I thought it was very powerful. You, Darta, also talk about it in your new show “Boys are not girls”, which is a hit for you this season. I think that theme appealed to you in this play.

Darta Danevich:

It is not my goal to become a victim of violence [tēmas] flag bearer in our country. That’s how it happened that I was chosen for this role. But I also don’t mind talking about it, because this is a topic that is very relevant to me, and not only to me.

I have come across it in different ways through different people and situations. I really appreciate that we are talking about it and I really hope that the viewer will also appreciate the fact that the director has actually succeeded in not talking about this like a kulak in the eye, but has chosen alienation. I think it is a very correct choice. Because talking so brutally about brutal topics is sometimes too much and the viewer can have the opposite effect if he doesn’t want to hear it. In this case, it is addressed, as you mentioned at the beginning, through the style of play. It seems natural to me that this topic has come up. Because everyone who has seen the classic production of “Lilioma”… If, say, I ask the elderly, mom and dad, what it was about, they all remember the songs. But if we scrap these songs, this musical?

Songs of Imantas Kalniņas.

Darta Danevich: So what remains in the content? We need to bring something else to the fore and it has been done. The material already has it.

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The director mentions in the program that the playwright himself has been violent towards his wives and girlfriends.

Lauris Dzelzītis: Yes, such a confession.

Darta Danevich: She said that Julia’s prototype is his first wife, or whatever. That’s how it was.

The scenes in the afterlife and purgatory, where the main character meets similar forty-year-old suicides, are very important in the play and performance “Lilioms”. The director has introduced such a character as Liliom’s mother into the production, which multiplies on the stage – there are several such ladies in furs, which are a bit reminiscent of the scary ladies of Roman Polanski’s film “Rosemary’s Child”…

Lauris Dzelzītis: Yes? Reminded you? I have a little something else.

What did it remind you of?

Lauris Dzelzītis: To cartoons “Shaun the Ram”. (Everyone laughs.)

But this is another additional line – the main character’s relationship with his mother – which the director has introduced and which is not actually in the play. What can you say about why they are important?

Lauris Dzelzītis: Important… All plays are very personal to me. My whole life revolves around the theater, everything ties together. My dead mother – I might as well meet her somewhere there, [kā Lilioms izrādē satiek savu māti]. But the episode with the punishment, I think, is very funny. Because when Dreģe swings her purse and speaks in exactly the same intonation as [filmas “Limuzīns Jāņu nakts krāsā” ainā] “and I gave him that shirt at the silver wedding”, you have to think about what you have done in that life. (Laughs) Speaking of suicides, I don’t know if it is the case now, but I think that Latvia is still in the top three in the number of male suicides. Why?

Yes, the show is relevant in many aspects. Continuing on the topic of motherhood – Darta, for your character Julia, being a mother is basically a key event in her life.

Darta Danevich: At least that’s how I treat it.

Lauris Dzelzītis: Also, everything changes in my character’s life at that moment.

Darta Danevich: To [Lilioma] I would explain the introduction of the image of the mother as a small attempt to thicken the material a little, to nurture it once again. If we’re talking about a topic like this, I think it’s important to touch a little bit on why people become this way, because no one is born first evil or with evil intentions, but it somehow happens during life. I strongly believe that.

My treatment of Julia is that her love for Lilioma is greater and so forgiving that she chooses to somehow ignore the violence (I know an awful lot of such cases in our society).

But when she senses or sees potential abuse in the next generation, that’s a red flag that makes her open her eyes.