Edith Schippers is very concerned about how people talk about business. “The trend is very much: we have to get rid of everything that makes noise or emits,” says the intended party leader of the VVD in the Senate. NU.nl spoke to her extensively in the run-up to the provincial elections.
Trust in politics is historically low and you thought: a good time to return?
“I thought: there are fundamental problems at play. Climate change, biodiversity is decreasing, there is energy scarcity, the food system is stalling. Fundamental answers are needed for that.”
“I think it’s important that we take the right turn as the Netherlands. That’s why I want to get back into politics.”
When you left politics in 2017, weren’t there fundamental problems?
“Then I wanted something different. I wanted to go to the business world, see how things are going there.”
“In that respect, I really see a clash of two worldviews. Some say: shoulders underneath, because we have to solve today’s problems together. We need economic growth for that.”
“According to the other – especially left-wing – world view, no growth is needed at all and the economy should even shrink. Consume less, stop flying, stop driving a car. That is not the way we should go.”
Can Schiphol continue to grow as far as you are concerned?
“Not if emissions increase as a result. But people want to travel. If Schiphol shrinks, people will still take the plane, but via Düsseldorf or Brussels. You have to provide alternatives and innovation. Because I also want emissions to go down .”
As part of the previous cabinet, former Minister of Infrastructure Cora van Nieuwenhuizen promised that Schiphol could grow and that the nuisance for people and the environment would decrease. A few years later it was announced that Schiphol had to downsize. The Hague often runs up against the wall of ‘and-and policy’.
“I do not agree that it can never be ‘and and’. I see in business that solutions are being devised for the problems we are facing now. The government tends to drive companies away rather than to to hunt.”
“We invest a lot in knowledge. Also in start-ups. But when companies grow and have solutions for pressing problems, they cannot scale up here and they leave abroad.”
Do you have examples of companies that leave the Netherlands because they don’t like it here?
“It’s not about pleasant. They literally don’t have space or there are other obstacles, such as in our laws and regulations.”
“Our approval procedures for new products are slower than anywhere else in the world.”
That is regulated in Europe.
“That’s right. I think we can solve a lot. When I read or hear the news, I very often see problems, but not the solutions that are currently being developed in the Netherlands. That doesn’t happen automatically.”
As Minister of Health, I heard you say during your last budget discussion in 2016 that major steps are being taken with innovation in healthcare. Has it changed so much that it stalls seven years later?
“We have of course had the corona crisis in the meantime, so many things have been put on hold.”
“We can portray companies as enemies and as grabbers, but that is starting to wring. I notice that people are complaining about this in the business world.”
“You can fly the flag when Shell announces that it is leaving the Netherlands. I have it tweet of the Labor Party. You also hear parties swear loudly when the company makes a profit, but then you are left empty-handed.”
The total profit of Shell has never been taxed in the Netherlands. Are you not drawing a caricature of parties that criticize Shell, such as GroenLinks and PvdA?
“I’m not saying that’s the case either.”
You link those two things together. You say: ‘Shell is making a profit, but we are empty-handed because the head office has moved to London.’ If the head office had still been here, we would have been empty-handed too.
“For me it’s about the tweet. The reflex that a party is happy that such a company is leaving. If we want an energy transition here, we desperately need a company like Shell.”
“I also notice it in the discussions about our industry. The trend is very much: we have to get rid of everything that makes noise or emits. While we have to make these companies more sustainable here in the Netherlands.”
When you left politics in 2017, you saw Muslim fundamentalism as the greatest threat to freedom in the Netherlands. Do you still see it that way?
“That is more topical than ever! Not so long ago, Lale Gül had to be protected because she had written a book. I was also shocked by the recent figures about the increase in honor violence.”
In your opinion, the greatest danger to the freedom of the Netherlands is still Muslim fundamentalism?
“The greatest danger is Putin waging a war in Europe. We need security and a defense budget. And to pay for the defense budget, we need a thriving economy.”
You know how to bring the subject back to business very quickly.
“To the economy! That defense budget has to be paid from somewhere, right?”
The lack of a strong economy is not the problem. The economy grew in the past quarter even a little.
“Look at energy prices and what a blow that SMEs have dealt. And all that now that we have just come out of the corona crisis.”
“Let’s not lull ourselves to sleep. Talk to entrepreneurs and you will hear the problems. We have to keep our housekeeping book in order. For me, that doesn’t mean that we should immediately go for a tax increase.”
Research by the Central Planning Bureau shows that the richest 1 percent pays the least tax. The call to tax assets more heavily and the dissatisfaction about this come from somewhere.
“We have a progressive tax system and I think that is fair. People with a job should be able to make a good living from it. There is a shortage of personnel everywhere. If you start working more, you should also have more left over.”
Do you want to reduce labor costs?
What is that paid for?
“I am not in principle against a shift of taxation from income to wealth. I am in principle for tax reduction. On everything!”
“It is if we ensure that the economy grows. And the government can simply spend less.”
“Or let the expenditure increase less.”
As far as you are concerned, which department can do best with less money?
“I think you could look anywhere.”
“I would like to rule out security. There is war on our continent.”
“The question is whether you can achieve more with the same money. That every department just has to make do with a little less.”
“You see that the number of civil servants is only growing. You can also say: we do it with less.”
But that doesn’t apply to Defense?
“I’m not going to make lists now.”
Everyone wants to have more salary left over, but that has to be paid from somewhere. People want to know whether the leader of the VVD in the Senate spends less money on education or care.
“The VVD leader of the Senate says: if we are short of money, we must ensure that the economy grows and that you do not automatically see the business community and the middle class as an ATM.”
You’re cracking down on a plan that doesn’t really exist by trading the rich for the middle class. I have not heard a politician say that the middle class should be taxed more heavily.
“I know what it comes down to. If you start taxing the rich, you won’t bring in enough money. I know that exactly from my experience in the cabinet.”
You once called Mark Rutte “a good connector”. Do you think so about yourself?
“You cannot come to solutions with polarization and caricatures of each other. As a minister, I once started with the conclusion of care agreements. If you make a good plan for the patient together, you will get further than if you were opposed to each other.”
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